January 17, 2010

Who are Nationalists, who are Federalists & why FairTax now, answered here

Back when the Constitution was completed and was sent out for ratification by the 13 States, there were two groups, Federalists and Anti-Federalists. 
The Federalists were the faction that were strong supporters of a Federal Union of the States and supported the Constitution.
Anti-Federalists were those who opposed the Constitution for fear of it.
James Madison, a Federalist at the time of writing and selling the Constitution, had to promise the anti-Federalists he would accept and promote a Bill of Rights if the Constitution were adopted, to which James agreed.
Congressman Madison did not see the value of the Bill of Rights.  He spoke to the fact that the powers within the Constitution given to the Federal government were very limited and that the Bill of Rights being submitted were simply describing a few of the numerous rights reserved to the States and the People.  He feared that by making this short list of Rights, it would give rise to those who would think any right not listed was owned by the Federal Government.  But by the insistence of his promise, we now have the First 10 Amendments of the Constitution.
Then came the battles over the power of the Federal Government with Federalist Alexander Hamilton leading the way on pushing the expansion of the Federal Government over the States.  James Madison and Thomas Jefferson became bitter enemies with Hamilton, especially when it came to banking controls.  At that point the line of Federalist and anti-federalist became blurred by definition.  Madison and Jefferson, both Federalists, were now in the anti-Federalist camp by action and Hamilton changing the roll of a Federalist to expanding the Federal Government beyond the Constitution's defined roll. 
Over the many years, especially after the assassination of President Lincoln, the federal Government has expanded well beyond the limited powers within the Constitution.  The generation that gave us the 17th Amendment was a very strong people in support of Democracy verses a more controlled Republic form of Federalism.  The expansion of this Nationalism has continued to grow, to a point today where the Constitution is not considered viable for Federal Law makers to adhere to and has been publicly declared violated by President Bush in the enacting of the McCain-Feingold Campaign Finance Act, when Bush43 signed the Bill into Law.
Thus today, we have two camps coming to the forefront.  No longer is it liberalists and conservatives.  It is Nationalists and Federalists.
Nationalists are those who want to expand Federal power over the States and people.  These people make up the leadership in both Parties.  It became clear after 8 years under Bush43, who in his first act expanded Education control by the Federal Government.  The eye opener was when Bush43 offered the Democrat Party 20 Billion dollars for ACORN, a extremely illegal political arm of the Democrat Party, to pass the Bailout of 2008, which was to stop the demand of the International Bank Committee from it's demand to see the Federal Reserve book to comply with the BASEL agreement to make all National Bank Books open to which all did but the USA on August first 2008.
Now the definition of a Federalist, though still the same as it's first appearance, is to support the constitution and return our Federal Government back to Constitutional Conduct. 
The Patriot movement has taken this mantra to heart and is insisting on Constitutional conduct and by majority are insisting on changing the communist tax structure away from distribution of jobs to foreign Nations by built in hidden tax in product made in the USA and to equally tax both imports and USA manufacturing.
Joel, your very correct on the income tax and to embrace the Forbes flat income tax is to but dance for a day, until down the road they can again push us back by the progressive income tax.  Who is it that spends the most, the rich.  Who is it that hires all the lobbyists in DC, to whom our 17th Amendment Senate cater to rather then the people? 
The FairTax Plan was created 20 years ago by this Nations top scholars and has been vetted ever since, tweaked to perfection.  Millions of dollars have been spent on studying it and you can find all the data at http://fairtax.org.  FairTax will provide our Nation an immediate growth in jobs, just by talking about implementing it.  The bugs are worked out Joel.  We are ready to go and the Patriots number one plank across the teaparties has been the FairTax and Constitution.
In Michigan we are sinking like a rock and the further down we go the faster the fiscal descent.  There is a plan here too in Michigan to change the tax structure.  It is called the Michigan FairTax Plan which you can study at http://MIFairtax.org  This plan too has been vetted and studied and tweaked to near perfection and is in committee ready to go.  All it needs is for the Legislature to put it on the ballot this fall.  Also, to implement both Fairtax and MIfairtax, it will take time to retool the system, like updating software and the like.
The Fairtax plans must have a start date of January 1st to make the mapped out transition of changing tax structure work. The Federal Government can implement the FairTAx by Congressional act.  To have the FairTax in line for 01/01/2011, they must act soon.
For Michigan to implement the MIFairTAx, it must be approved by We Michiganders as a Michigan Constitution Amendment.  That also means the MiFairTax ballot proposal must be on the General ballot in November.  That leave not enough time to implement the tax change on Jan first of 2011.  The only way to get that done and our fiscal plight of Michigan is such that we need that date to implement the tax change, is to impress upon our legislature to step out in faith that We Michiganders will implement the MiFairTAx and to begin the retooling efforts now, so we are ready come 01/01/2011.
All through our history, we have rose up at times of great peril and made bold actions to correct our course.  Those in our History that are held up as Great did it by making History, not tinkering in the shadows.
Nationalists are for making the Federal Government into a State eliminating the Fifty States we have.
Federalists are those who cling to the structure of fifty Sovereign Nations as mapped out in the Constitution.  We are at the final crossroad.  Which way will our trail take us, back to the liberty and Freedom of the Constitution or back to the Declaration of Independence, blood in the Land?
Our greatest need at this hour is to elect State Attorney Generals in every State that hold to the Tenth Amendment and the all of the Constitution.  Here is a Vetting Patriot Caucus whose main focus is measuring which candidate is of Constitutional conduct.  Check out the questionnaire and take it yourself.  http://ourcaucus.com
George

----- Original Message -----
From: Erik Johnson
Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 8:52 AM
Subject: RE: Still Re: [tri-city912] Congressman Camp


Thanks for the cordial discussion on Camp.  I'm still lost on what exactly a "nationalist" is.  I've heard of "internationalists" and "multi-nationalists".  Could you define it a little more and explain what its' opposites or competing titles are?
Thanks,
Erik Johnson, MBA
Saginaw/Bay City/Midland, MI
S2FEH01S
V-Mail: 1-800-321-0855 ext. 95713
Cell: 989-529-3514

From: tri-city912-list@meetup.com [mailto:tri-city912-list@meetup.com] On Behalf Of George
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 4:26 PM
To: tri-city912-list@meetup.com
Subject: Still Re: [tri-city912] Congressman Camp

REp. Camp never said to support VAT, he either does not know or played ignorant to it's wickedness. 
We have watched as this nation has slide down the road of good intention nationalism, always precluded by we can't fight it, so we must subdue at best.  To support a Nationalist agenda, be it from the Democrats or from a soft push Republican is one and the same.  If we co not stop this encroachment of our Constitution and revert back, be it 20 years to do, we will lose our Constitution, which is near death already. 
The Patriot movement is a purist approach, one that would have been taken long ago.  If it fails, the result will be the same as if we continue to hide from the truth by saying it is more important to have a Republican elected then to gain back our Nation.  Those days are gone, and if the GOP continues and wins that road of compromise, the end will arrive for the GOP in 2012.  Either the Patriots win the civil war with the Establishment Nationalists in the GOP or it is third party all the way.  My observation is the Patriots will rule the day and those who protest to Constitutional Conduct will be dismissed.
In the last poll, Patriots out polled the GOP 28% to 17% with Democrats at 32% with 22% undecided.  I would say the GOP is in trouble already, provided the Patriots get in the primary the candidate of Constitutional conduct.  If it does not happen, there will be a Patriot Party for 2012.  So if Dave Camp wishes to be a continuing presence in DC for the people in his district, he had better repent and embrace the Constitution. 
Judging from this argument and his letter to my friend, he has no clue or could care less about the Patriot movement other then to consider it a nuisance.  Too bad for him.  Again, is there anyone out there in his district to challenge his credentials by running in the primary against him?  This is the calling of the 912, the teaparties, all Patriots standing up.  There is nothing worse then a Nationalist parading as a conservative.  That is worse then the Alinsky left in full view.
George
----- Original Message -----
From: sandra kahn
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 1:05 PM
Subject: RE: [tri-city912] Congressman Camp

It is true that Rep. Camp was overly supportive of the Bank Bail-Out and Medicare Part D, even though that legislation did also strengthen and encourage medical savings plans, which I support.  I do know he fought hard, but unsuccessfully, for Social Security reform and is well aware of the financial danger we face with this and other entitlement programs.  His voting record as a whole is very conservative and he is a supporter of the "sunset" bill for legislation.  I agree that the VAT is a horrible idea and I am surprised and disappointed that he would consider it an option.  I, myself, have never heard him promote it. 
The flat tax is a popular idea, but needs tweeking to be viable. We have gone very far down the road to fiscal irresponsibility and our tax structure is a nightmare.  If we try to correct both drastically, "overnight", our national economy will collapse into chaos.  It took 70+ years to incrementally create these problems and it will take 50 years more to be reversed.  A large portion of our population has been schooled in class warfare.  The flat tax will have no hope until this mentality is reversed – and it will take a generation at least. 
We could do far worse than Dave Camp as our Representative and I would not replace him with someone who, while "ideologically pure", would waste his efforts on the unreachable.

From: tri-city912-list@meetup.com [mailto:tri-city912-list@meetup.com] On Behalf Of George
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 9:05 PM
To: tri-city912-list@meetup.com
Subject: Re: [tri-city912] Congressman Camp
A friend received a letter back saying that Camp did not have much understanding of the FairTax and thought a flat tax or a VAT tax might be worth looking into.  He is the Senior Minority in the Ways & Means committee.  It clearly means he is for Nationalism for anyone to even think of a VAT at the Federal Level.  His conduct before the Bush bailout was the typical lost to the Constitution politician, but when Camp supported the Bush Bailout, he stood with those for Big Government.
Should have kept a diary I suppose, but the view of who is who is clear.  And if we do not return to the Constitution, our Nation is lost.  This is what the Patriot movement is all about.
It is not as if Camp has not heard this, as he is on my twitter list and I have reminded him of the need to repent.  The VAT comment is coming after all the truth being presented by the teaparties and he is still out there, to mean that in the beltway , they have not a clue. 
If you really want to measure Camp, ask him to take the questionnaire at http://ourcaucus.com
Five bucks says he will not.  Independence Caucus is growing into one of the leading groups within the Patriot movement.
George
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 1:29 PM
Subject: Re: [tri-city912] Congressman Camp
George,
If you could enlighten me and the 912 why you said what you said. With that information it would help in making a decision on weather or not we could find some one to run against
Dave Camp
Dean Tighe
On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 10:09 PM, Joel Poynter <jtp44@aol.com> wrote:
Don't you mean "one worlder" or internationalist instead of nationalist? I am a nationalist, meaning, I pledge allegiance to the U.S. only.
joel
-----Original Message-----
From: George <rgdunn@veionline.com>
To: tri-city912-list@meetup.com
Sent: Thu, Jan 14, 2010 8:37 pm
Subject: [tri-city912] Congressman Camp
Congressman Camp is a Nationalist.  Is there anyone who is a Patriot running or would run against him?
George




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